Category: Let's talk
I suppose I'm bringing up this topic after seeing the topic about whether one prefers dating blind or sighted people. I'm not talking about status symbols, such as whether you have the coolest brand of talking phone or such, but more about the people you choose to be involved with. So, for example, is a blind person generally considered to be of a higher status amongst blind people if they know lots of sighted people or if they are in a relationship with a sighted person? Are sighted people considered a sort of status symbol or a connection for gaining higher social class or status? Is it considered shameful to have lots of blind friends or to be in a relationship with another blind person? Personally, I don't care either way, and I tend these days to make friends with other blind people. I figure no matter what choice you make in life, somebody's going to put you down for it, and their criticism is probably not even about you anyhow so it all just really doesn't matter. Just do what you'll do and that's it. That's my attitude anyhow. What about you? Mind you, I'm not talking about how you think it should be, because I understand that there should be no such thing as social status or class differences. The thing is, like it or not, there are, and I'm trying to find out how such things are determined. OK, discuss!
doesn't matter to me whether sighted or blind friends, each brings their own ideas to the party, so to speak.
This post assumes that one thinks of oneself as blind and one´s "buddies" as blind or sighted i.e. that blindness is a criteria by which one assumes the status of a friend.
I don´t think I do that. For dating or marriage purposes, purely objectively speaking, I think blindness and independence matter a heck of a lot, so it is practical to think of one´s partner and evaluate him/her, because if, together, you cannot muster up enough independence you may end up both being very unhappy, both relying on others or your partner constantly relying on you the rest of your lives.
For friends I don´t see this coming into play as much, as you are unlikely to have to cook, have babies and go to the store with your friends every day.
For me it is not so much blind vs sighted. I had little to nothing in common with most blind people I grew up around and ended up making tons of friends through music and swimming. All of them happened to be sighted, which suited me just fine, and these are still my best friends. Same at college, there was one other blind girl but we had absolutely nothing in common except being blind, so we didn´t become friends. We liked and respected each other, but you gel with someone or you don´t.
Now I know a few blind folks of here who I would consider friends, even if we, perhaps, do not exactly get to hang out a lot, there´s a new generation of folks in my home country that I could see myself becoming friends with if I hang out with them, but now I have a wife and two little kids so it´s not as if making friends is either high on my agenda, nor would I ahve time for it. I barely have enough time for people who are already my friends.
I don´t make friends because we share the same disability, it gives us a topic to talk about and it can be fun, but it´s not nearly enough for me to want to be friends with said person. Also I find that frustrating amount of blind people have such bizarre attitudes, either always thinking about their blindness, fiercely independent, to the point it annoys me, unable to fend for themselves at all, which annoys me too, and is always thinking of blind this and blind that, which I don´t see (pardon the pun) the point of.
agree with last poster. personally, i have more sighted friends that i hang out with compare to blind friends. making friends is like anything else, you connect with people that connect to you, who have similar interest, who have things that are incommon. either blind or sighted, as long as we get along, that matter the most for me. in my friends' circle, there're mostly sighted. not because i choose to be with sighted people, just by circumstances, that is what i feel comfortable with. by saying so, i do have quite a few close friends and its blind. we have something incommon there, other than our disability. we share the same challenge in life.
friends are people you choose to be. you can either stick with the tight circle of blind community, or put yourself out there as part of the world. there's no right and wrong in it, just, depends on what you feel comfortable with
I am friends with people who share my interests and enjoy each other's company and not just because they are blind/low vision or whatever.
I think there's a certain tendency for some blind people to be friends with other blind people, just because of having the blindness in common. My personal view on it all is that people are people, sighted, blind, or anything else. It's what they do with their lives, and what kind of people they are that makes me want to be friends with them (or not in some cases.)
I'm friends with both, though I see my blind friends much less than my sighted ones.
I used to have problems with sighted people, but I dealt with that at a young age, because I'd have no friends if I didn't. I made my majority of blind friends at music camp, so we live a long way away from each other.
I'll befriend anyone sighted or blind, as long as they're not pathetically dependent on other people to do things for them and they have the ability to make intelligent conversation.
However, relationships are different. My ex-fiance was blind, and he was incredibly posessive of me, and I never worked out why, but it makes me incredibly wary of having a relationship with another blind person, especially one with less sight than me. I'd also never have a relationship with anyone who was less independent than me because I want a relationship where I do things or the other because I want to, not because I have to or am expected to.
I seem to have more sighted friends then blind ones but I'll befriend eether.
Blind or sighted: It doesn't matter to me, as long as the person can be a good friend. As far as relationships are concerned, it doesn't matter, as long as blindness is not the focus of the relationship. I am currently with someone who is also blind, and it's working out great for both of us.
Hmm, what a great topic!
Let me start off by saying that boath my parents are blind, and there fine. It doesn't matter weather you're blind or sighted in a marrege or relationship, if you can stick together, get along and support each other, you're doing better then %50 of the population, blind or sighted. Weather you're eyes work has little to do with long turm happyness.
I have noticed though that the biggest gulf between blind people can sometimes be weather the blind person is implloyed or not. The blind person that has the well paying job is treated better and will sometimes look down on there jobbless brethreren. It makes no diffrence if the other blind person lives in an economicly depressed area, some, not all but some people chuse to look down on the non payed blind person as lazy or no good.
Also the choice of how you travel can be a big topic for debate in the blind sercle. It all depends on the adatude. If you're trying you're hardest to get a hed, not just sitting on you're ass doing nothing, you're trying to better you're self, that's more then some sighted people do.
Sorry for getting a little off topic and rambbiling.
Have a blessed day,
Tracey
I do do a bit of that, but it's not if they are employed or not for me, and I find the same among most blind people who are employed or actively seeking it like I am.
it's the atitude that I look down upon. if a blind person is unemployed it doesn't bother me as long as they are making the effort to become employed or educating themselves in order to seek work.
if they're just sitting on their arse doing sweet FA then yes, i look down on them, but I do that with lazy sighted people too. I dislike lazy people.
however what I dislike about lazy blind people is the atitude that many of them have that it's impossible for them to work because they are blind, that they somehow have a reprieve from scontributing to society because they have a disability. that they are free to sit there and mooch off of it just because they can't see, that society owes them something.
I find unemployed sighted people at least don't have that.
I believe in classes, but in quite a different way. I don't care how much wealth you have, but how intelligent you are. I think the more intellectual folks are definitely of a higher social status and everyone should strive to get there. I ain't saying I am the smartest but I like all people believe on getting on top is aiming for it. I give a lot of thought to it and try my hardest. I do think sighted folks in most cases are smarter and the blind folks integrated in to the world in the normal sense is better off. The majority of my friends are sighted, I do have a few friends on here, and they are well adapted to living in a sighted environment and have normal sighted behaviors. They have grown and integrated well in the world and go very far. they are also on their way to the top.
If you study closely how blind people who has very little sighted friends and those with many sighted friends, you begin to see a large difference.
I am fairly new to the blind community here and don't plan to stay in them, I only have here and don't wish to join a blind group, but I've gone to enough of them and seen things here, that I am shocked. I am amazed how people may live life with so little ability. I am so use to the sighted folks and their achievements that is a total shock how these dependent folks decide to live life. It's very unsettling.
I have both sighted and blind friends and like others have already stated, I make my friends because of things we have in common, but not just because they are blind.
My mother who is sighted has a real problem with my having blind friends, to be honest, she has never really come to terms with having a blind child. She has seen one or two chip-on-the-shoulder blind people and assumes they are all like that. She doesn't seem to attach any value to my friendships with blind people. If ever I talk about someone new with her, one of her first questions will be "Are they sighted?"
With regard to relationships, I was married to a sighted man who was very controlling and possessive. When things were going wrong he used his sight as a means to get the better of me. I am now with a blind person who is independent but caring, and it works well. It just goes to show that these traits are in people, whether they be blind or sighted.
to poster 11:
i agree on the whole atitude thing. some people come with the atitude because they are blind or have some sort of disability, they stop trying, because they give conclusion that the world aint belong to them. same goes with employment and any other bits in life. we're blind, therefore we might require to do more than a sighted person do, we might need to work harder to get things that sighted get easily, but doesn't mean, we can achieve, just the atitude , and personality, more than anything that hindrence us from achieving.
to poster 12,
there's so many blind people that achieve greater than sighted people. only, you haven't come across them, and dont try to limited yourself as what one blind can achieve than a normal sighted person. its depends on the person itself, either sighted or blind choose to achieve or not to chieve. but unfortunately, blind people sometime give excuse for themselves as they are blind, therefore they can get out of it easier than normal people. as far as the classes goes, some educated people can be dumb and stubborn too in its own way again, dont stereotype with that too soon. you have lots ot learn, lots to see before giving any conclusion to it.
indeed, it's not that sighted people are more intelligent, it's that sighted people often seem to have more status, they seem to be doing more with their lives to many blind people, and that's not true at all...
I've met some incredibly socially inept blind people, but they're not socially inept because they're blind, it's because they've been sheltered and don't often know any different and haven't given their intelligence a chance or haven't been allowed to.
then again, I've met some incredible intelligent blind people who have really impressed me, not because they can dress themselves or travel by train independently, but because of the sort of person they are and the things they have achieved. I have friends with law degrees, music degrees and business degrees at university and they have good jobs and yes, they are blind.
it's not about disability with me and never has been. it's about atitude.`
Well to be honest some aspects of this topic have befuddled me for years.
I mean, I assumed I was friends with mostly sighted people because they make up a vast majority of the population, and in so doing it was mere mathematical odds that would portend towards being friends with somebody sighted. My mother did consider any and all things a shame regarding blindness, but to me as I said, I used to think it was all pretty much tomfoolery and of nil effect.
Generally I'm friends with people who are of similar mentality, or at least a complementary one. I mean, I am a software developer but can have a roaring good time with a couple blue collar friends. Until getting on this site, I largely considered blind vs. sighted being a figment of people's imagination if only because of the population ratios.
The one thing I will say though, is inside the "blind community" if one calls it that, is this intense tendency to juvenile image-based judgment calls. Kinda makes me really glad I didn't know any of those when I was out of work on account of a business failing. That being said, there is information I have gotten off of here I would not have gotten anywhere else, and I have found some of that enlightening.
But the blind are not alone in this. Look at history: any of the groups attempting integration into a "mainstream" society - pick your culture - tend to disassociate with "their own kind" whatever that is, attempt to meld and fit in. Before the sixties, there were black movements of folks doing this; the Native American population that got off the reservations did this (are blind schools the reservations for the blind?).
After a generation or two, they tended to regroup culturally and now you have second or third-generation immigrants who learn the language of their forefathers, you have Native Americans going back attempting to learn the culture of their ancestors, and what not.
Where this all breaks down is that blindness is not a race group; it is pure and simple a hardware deficiency that affects a cross section of the population at large. So how this will actually play out who knows.
But for me personally, I don't really consider race or any other hardware component as a reason to have a friendship or not. For those that prefer the blind, or those that deliberately exclude them, well I think they deserve each other.
As to the comment about both parties in a relationship being able to do all tasks equally - you're dreamin'.
Due to our daughter's schooling situation, we live where I don't have direct transportation right now. That's a decision one makes on account of the family as a whole, not just blind or independence.
Because I work from home, there are things I can do while working, around the house, that I never could accomplish when I spent late hours in an office, or when I was out running around operating food vending stands. For a time, there were things my wife just couldn't do on account of some problems she was having - and I just stepped it up and did them. I wasn't 'whipped' - it was to me at least, a purely logical and doable solution; I just *did it* ...
This independence score some of you all keep - I was gonna say ratios but I doubt that's doable for ya - is ridiculous.
One final thought: The worst case of moochery I saw was not somebody blind as some of you all on here would paint, but wen I was running a store in a post office, I was confronted with quite a large population of homeless. This was quite different than just the typical pass the pan handler on the street; these guys, one in particular, would mealy-mouth their way around and beg for free coffee. And would talk amongst themselves about how they "tried work" but just didn't want to do that anymore. I'd heard people complain about homeless people doing this, but thought maybe they were being dramatic. Nope, they're out there; and they'd do it while I was scrubbing the counter or floor or whatever. I ran 'em off the premises if only so real customers on coffee breaks could get in and get their grub ...
Contrast this with a majority of blind people I have known are at least trying, excluding the simple-minded ones - I don't know what they could possibly do for a living anyway - and since we're all being anecdotal here - a higher percentage of those I know who are blind / VI put forth considerable amount more effort than those I know who can see. And that isn't playing victim or saying sighted people don't put forth effort; of course they do. However, this presupposition that a blind person may be lazy because they haven't put forth the same type of effort as another is silly. Or is it? Maybe it's just the childish tendency to put someone else down so ya feel better. Since the blind / VI are merely a cross-section of the population as a whole, plus a particular hardware deficiency, well you probably have some mooches. But it's harder to live without wits if you also have no sight - at least I assume that it is.
but you know what, if a person doesn't want to work and makes the decision to live that way, I have the slightest more respect for than a disabled person who does not work because he or she thinks society owes them something or because they have a disability they can't work.
that's worse than laziness, that's a cop out and it effects not only that person, but the perceptions of other disabled people.
I am aware that some blind members of the "blind community" think they're better than other blind people if they have more sighted friends than blind ones. They are the same blind people who analyse and compare themselves to every blind person they see (or perhaps they'd be more comfortable if I said feel, they'd certainly have an opinion).
Anyway I can't be bothered to count the amount of sighed people I'm friends with, count the amount of blind people I'm friends with, and analyse and compare the totals, and I don't care how many sighted friends other blind people have. It's up to each person to decide who to be friends with.
Of course, if sighted people won't be friends with somebody just because the person is blind, that is discriminatory, and if a blind person won't be friends with somebody because the person is sighted, that is just as discriminatory. Discrimination is backward.
Well perhaps it's because I don't know anyone disabled who simply doesn't work because they believe they're entitled.
In fact, the guy who "tried work and didn't really like it" and subsequently went mealing around begging for food had a far greater entitlement mentality.
I'm all for helping out where one will use it to get a break ... I been there. But I'd bet the blind person who actually thinks what you're saying - and that without having gone out there and at least given it effort - is probably pretty rare. I read recently on the net most blind people are college educated - and that takes both a considerable amount of effort and also some reason to do it. Most people aren't intrinsic enough to just go get a college education for the sake of having one. I realize it's easier now, but at least the way it used to be, there's no way a blind person would do that without some goal in mind, what with all the extra stuff one had to do just to make it.
While there probably are some out there that literally think they're entitled - the way you describe it - I imagine the perception is probably way inflated, if nothing else, for the sensational value.
Just think for a sec: If you really did imagine you were entitled to everything, you would be seriously screwed: Most of what you get being blind is from sheer wit and grit anyway. The instances of young people living with mom and dad till they're thirty - albeit popularized on nationally syndicated sit coms - is pretty rare, even though it is pretty sensationalized on those shows.
I only know a couple people who are now perpetually unemployed - and none have a college education, one was in an industry that isn't anymore except in some Asian countries where it's been outsourced. Maybe you haven't seen someone has been outa work for awhile but it ain't pretty, even if you hump and pump by day and hit the liquor or your pleasure at night. My best description for the one who got outsourced is beat, not entitled.
Because I had a college education, and had even held a management position, I had options when I lost my business, and granted some would no doubt judge me for using a (rather failing) government vending program to do it, but with a college education, it was no problem for me to do the research, conduct my own bookkeeping, etc., especially with technology. Yes, I saw many technologyless people in that program, but they weren't feeling sorry for themselves, they simply hadn't gotten the technology, or the knowledge of how to use it. And some of them were so successful only a dumbass wouldn't use them as a resource for learning the ropes.
And that brings up another point. I wonder how many of these supposedly "entitled" people are without technology. I know, some of you will no doubt rant and say one can do it without technology, and yes, it is possible perhaps to a limited extent nowadays. But let's get everyone suited up with a screen reader or magnifier, a Braille display if they are blind enough to need one, and a new computer / education and *then* we'll see what happens. That and find new areas for people besides dead-end customer service jobs with little promotional advancement and no market value. Might be a worthy experiment provided there were funds from somewhere to do it, and my betting money would be on the side of them making a break for it and getting ahead. It's not enough to have motivation, you have to have the tools to get 'er done. That's like pretending you can run a car with no damned drive shaft and no pistons ... um? No tork. Just lots of exhaust and burning fumes. Oh yeah, almost forgot, that's politics anyway ... lol
I have been blind all my life, and I grew up around mostly sighted people. I have always been used to being the only blind person in a group. It doesn't bother me. I find I seem to have more in common with more sighted people than blind. I went out with a couple of blind friends once, and I felt really awkward. They were all nice people, I just felt sort out of place. I think in general, blind people who have been exposed to the sighted world, do seem to have a bit more social ettiquette. This is just my oppinion though. I think a lot of this has to do with education. Either sighted or blind, I work with people who need low-income housing, and it's amazing the differences in vocabulary among those that have an education and those who don't. Whether we like or not, people do judge you and treat you differently based upon how you speak. Maybe some people don't care about this, but that doesn't change the fact that it still happens. I'd be interested to know what percentage of blind people with college degrees have jobs. s.
Woa!! talk about crappy typing. I think some blind people feel so beaten down and discouraged, that it is easy for them to give up and not better themselves. I think though that this is changing, at least here in the States.
until reading this post, i never thought about it. I have friends of all visual accuity. My three closest ones, those whom I consider my adoptive sisters, are two sighted and one who is like two points over legally blind. My daughter who also is one of my best buds has very low vision.
physical blindness is far less important to me then a person who has a lack of mental or spiritual vision. narrow mindedness or tunnel vission of interests are much more off putting than someone who can't see a sunrise or if i'm wearing the lattest hottest fashion.
My husband is blind, but I'd have married him if he were a little green man from mars. He is funny, gentle, calmly efficient, open minded, encouraging, supportive, practical, and a damn good lover. none of those things have a whit to do with how well he sees. In many ways, I think our shared vision impairment has bettered our life but not because of the usual stuff. Since we don't drive, our kids didn't get in to the hurry scurry worry and flurry lifestyle so common today. Our family walked everywhere, or took public transportation. This gave us time to talk, share, and have meaningful close relationships. there were many teachable moments where we could discuss the things we saw and heard. Additionally, our kids saw us finding creative ways to solve problems that many said we couldn't master. As adults they both have the ability to think outside the box. This is one of the most important tools we have for survival. Another one they have developed from having two blind parents is a sense of themselves and their competence. They know that they can rely on their own abilities if times get tough. They are aware that they have or can find ways to deal with issues. Hope this all makes sense...
Sometimes, I get so used to the sighted that I feel odd around the blind. I hate to say it because I know how that makes me sound. It's not that I care what disability you may or may not have, it's just I've gone to public school all my life and thus met few of the blind
Now when I joined the NFB I made good blind friends but I tried to stick to the more socially acceptible ones.
I do think that it often depends on what situation you find yourself in.
I think that in many instances the blind community is quite incestuous, in so much as that if you live in a certain country there are few blind people so invariably they all went to the same schools and therefore all know each other or know someone who knows them, if that makes sense. And so because you grow up together so the friendships continue, and you can find yourself in a situation where you have mainly blind friends.
In my own case, I grew up in a different country, so when I came over here I had no desire to seek out the blind community, as in reality that's not the real world. And as time went on I had a child and became involved in the school community and therefore automatically have sighted friends.
I have to say that the majority of blind people I have met here (in this town) all mix in the same group, only are able to associate with other blind people, and none of them have jobs. And I even met one once who said "well, if I got a job then I would only have four weeks holiday, and I just wouldn't be able to do the things I want to do." and to be honest I'm not sure I would want to be associated with that.
Wow! what a horrible excuse for not getting a job! Blind or sighted! I'm glad I was exposed to sighted people early in life. Like other posters have said, it is a sighted world. I wouldn't have it any other way. I think the overly close-knit circles that some blind people often form, in some cases, can perpetuate many stereotypes that sighted people sometimes have about the blind. I am not saying that blind people who are friends with other blind people fall into this category. However, when you limit yourself to one group of people, blind you might be limiting your opportunity to have others learn just how competent many blind people are.
I agree. Ah but I sometimes wonder if our philosophy about our own community makes us ignorant and hypocritical. I am sure we don't mean to come off that way but one has to wonder.
Until recently, I had thought that the vast majority of blind people were all part of the "blind community", and were obsessed with being visually impaired. You know the type that sees sighted people as different or even worse, the enemy, that compare themselves to other blind people, and look down on blind people who aren't as independent as them or who don't have a job.
Anyway, my experiences of the blind people I teach how to use a computer are different. They don't have anything in common with people in the "blind community". By that I mean they're not obsessed with accessibility, how they compare to other blind people, having loads of blind gadgets that talk, etc. I'd say it's because they've gone blind, but there are plenty of people who have gone blind who embrace the "blind community". Perhaps it's because of the first blind people they meet, I don't know.
hmmm that's interesting.
I didn't use blind gadgets at first, but there are some that you just have to give into if you wnat to access certain things.
Jaws for example was one that most of us couldn't do without, same with mobiles with a speach program, I faught against that one till I realised how much cheaper it would be if I could send and receive text messages overseas.
but some I will never use because there' no need in most cases, talking gadgets for cups when I can just use my finger, talking washing machines or microwaves because I prefer to learn all of it by feel and so on. I don't want to be surrounded by talking stuff designed for the blind because I have a lot of sighted friends and I just don't want to scream my blindness at people.
SwissGriff, you're right about most blind people, or black people, or women or whoever.
It's just the crusaders that get their shorts in a knot over everything. Hard to believe for women encased in women's studies but most women out there are not obsessing over feminist issues.
Most of us cracker white males aren't out there obsessing about how the minorities "get all the good jobs"
and I imagine, survival of the fittest being what it is, most blind people are out there doing their damnedest to hump and pump, put the nose to the grind stone, and make sure their kids get the best chance they can at everything ... in other words just like anyone else.
Most gays aren't members of Act Up; I have worked with many who aren't dressed in drag or queen around on the workplace all the time. What they do on their own is their affair, a lesson some on hear could certainly learn, and most people learn by age six or so.
But the other side of it is, that if you are helping to teach blind people how to use a computer with adaptive equipment, you for real are opening serious doors. And my hat's off to that, I can't teach to save my life. But I remember not having anything except a typewriter, a Braille writer and a slate and stylus. It was all I had, so I just sorta went for it, but with technology now we really can read and research and produce profit for employers amongst many other things.
As to a device that talks, well if I get a cell phone again I'm gettin' one with a screen reader - whatever teenage impressions people have of "blind technology" or not.
but yes most things don't talk - but I'm not ashamed to put Braille marks on things anymore like when I was a teen either. If it's 'fitting in' or making something successfully to ensure my daughter (and usually her friends) eat, I'm takin' the latter.
And FYI just because a character quality exists in a blink doesn't mean it's because they're blind. I have had the incredible misfortune of knowing several profound mooches who work really hard ... not to work. And none were blind. They're just mooches.
And they can be a pes to get rid of - use of RAID or explosives being illegal ... so steer clear to start with or things can get hairy.
Yes especially on here, I have heard profound statements about 'most' or 'all' blind people that if I were to make about blacks or women I wouldn't be alive to write this. Ironic and totally hypocritical.
I agree...not that I'm ashamed of it but they know I'm blind without me telling them.
I agree with the last two posts. You don't need to be isolated, or apart from the regular world to live your life, and you'd be surprised how many people I've met that think we do, but I don't see any problem with using adaptive technology, or putting braille labels where they are needed.
I do not really consider it much. People are just people and who cares if they can see or not.
indeed, we no need to let the world know we are blind, but let the world know our ability as a person. but unfortunately, there're people within the blind ourselves enphersise too much on the fact that we are blind, therefore, we need this extra thingn to help us, extram matter to guide us, support from this and that organization, , or i shall say, rather want. there's a different between we really need and want.
sometime, its depends on us ourselves on creating job for our own and use our capability to the most. but yet, sometime, we give ourselves too much of an excuse, rather, spending time on zone or online where, we're highly protected by our own comfort zone and rap in a cotten wall.
Yes, or as I call it, "my comfortable little cube."
friendlyPhilosophicalRachel, I'm going to assume that the content in your post is more indicative of your very young age than a well-thought out and informed opinion, but I will say that your conclusions about the "disappointments of the blind community" both sadden and infuriate me. And your elitest attitude about everyone striving to achieve a conventional standard of inteligence was similarly lost on me, but again, I suspect you probably don't know any differently at this point in your life. Yes, I realize I sound condescending.
Robozerk, I couldn't agree with you more.
I am very saddened by the very fragmented identity of the blind community overall. We are one another's harshist critics, are discouraged from developing a collective identity, and are so, so quick to shun people who "don't act sighted enough" as if "passing" is something to aspire to. I am absolutely not denying the reality that many people will be highly judgmental--but must we join in and hop aboard the "I'm-going-to-judge-everyone-harshly-because-its-a-reality" wagon? what the fuck happened to social progress, anyway? that attitude just seems so fatalistic to me.
As robozerk said, however, this is not specific to the blind community. It kind of reminds me of successful immigrants who think that new immigrants are coming and stealing jobs, ruining the conomy, etc. It is interesting, however, to notice that the deaf community is very, very well-connected, and they are highly suppotive of deaf culture and deaf communities. Indeed, there has been a movement towards deaf parents wanting embryo sellection to ensure that they have deaf children--to them, deafness is simply an expression or way of life, and is absolutely not viewed as anything to compensate for--if anything, it's considered a gift!! we definitely (for the most part) lack that warmth in our community. Disgusting. Anyway, that's all for now.
Hey did we say it's right? Did we say it's okay? No! But, people will judge like it or not. This is human nature.
As somebody who isn't in the "blind community", I don't see why blind people should have a collective identity.
There isn't a collective sighted identity that I am aware of. I watch football, and the vast majority the people who go to the matches only have their support of the football team in common. There is noothing else that links them together. During the week, some work, some don't, and of those who work, they have a variety of jobs. Some like to watch the soaps, others prefer to watch the sports channels. They have different interests, different beliefs, and different lives. They're Huddersfield Town fans, but when they're not at the football, they don't all go to the same places, do the same activities, have the same technologies, listen to the same music etc. Beyond their support of the football team, they have no collective culture.
Why do members of the "blind community" need a collective blind identity? Why are they more interested in a community with those who have their disability, than they are in interest-based or geographic communities? I think hostility towards and expections of sighted people are a factor.
I don't buy this human nature argument. Human nature is always evolving and changing, it is not set in stone. I also don't think people are judging others against their will because of some sort of biological imperative. People do it absolutely because they desire to do it. For one thing, it's great and wonderful fun, as long as you're not the target, right? It also keeps people you want to impress from seeing your flaws and you don't have to think about them. If you point out the flaws in others, people you want to impress will assume you are not like that, make you the coolest of the cool and you'll be apart of the cool people's club. LOL!
In that case, would it be safe to say that blind people are the butt of sighted people's jokes. I seriously hope not.
Yes, sometimes they are. And, if you're well-adjusted, like so many of us are, then you'll just shrug it off. LIke it or not, everyone judges others to some extent. It's a way to measure ourselves. Even having an oppinion about someone's outfit or taste in music, is to a small extent a judgment of that person. I'm not saying this is right, it's just the way people are. personally, I don't live in a "blind community, and I don't have what I'd call a "blind mentality." I'm just me.
Post 38 and 39 ... I'm with you all. This obsession on here about these things is ... um? kinda weird.
not to rain on anyone's parade, but what the hell happened to us just being human beings and living life to the best of our ability regardless of other's perceptions or preconceived notions?
We tend to form bonds with people who share similar interests, experiences, life chances, etc. Believe me, sighted people absolutely have a community that revolves around meeting the needs of sighted people--it's called visual culture, and it's everywhere. I have both sighted and blind friends, and both groups are close to my heart for different reasons--but we tend to connect best with people who understand us the most--be they of our cultural/ethnic background, enjoy our taste in music, are of similar intellectual ability, etc. And when people have a common experience (religion, disability, afinity for visual art) they absolutely form communities around it, support one another's endeavors--and why not? I am not suggesting that there be a collective identity to the exclusion of everything else--but this covert social hierarchy that we've imposed on ourselves is kind of stupid.
I have more sighted than blind friends also, but I will befriend both.
Now hold on a minute.
Yes blind and deaf people have just as much right to be in their own groups or to mix with society, I have nothing against that, but I have things against people who have undoubtably blind habbits, yet still think they can get a good job, and complain when they don't, or when the sighted people at their course or whatever won't speak to them or tease them.
I know it's not right, and all, I know it's not fair, but in soceity, especially around sighted people, who can see what you're doing, there are certain behavioural norms you have to stick to if you want to fit in.
If you don't want friends or a good job, fine, keep being like that. It's no skin off my nose.
Just don't complain about it.
as for deaf parents wanting deaf children, I can think of nothing more horrible for a little child, just like blind parents wanting blind children.
Mothers and fathers who are true loving and caring parents should want a child who has the oppoortunity to have as full a life as possible. and if this means having a child who has hearing and sight, then they should accept that. if there's a way that child can gain sight or hearing, the parents shouldn't prevent them from doing so.
anything else is child abuse.
I have to agree with BLW1978. Is it right that people judge us? Well, certainly not, but it happens, whether we like it or not, and we can either sit around and mope about it, or we can get out there and do something about it. Change what needs to be changed, and don't be afraid to show the parts of you that are part of you. It's not fair to blame the whole community for the fact that we are judged by mistakes that only a few people have made. Having said that, it's also not fair to blame this totally on sighted people either, because sitting around and complaining makes you know better than the people about whom you complain.
ditto to the last poster; you took the words right out of my mouth!!
Swiss, hang on
Why would it be "horrible" for a blind or deaf parent to have a blind or deaf child? You seem to display ignorance when it comes to the disabled. I hat to sound like a white and blind Reverind Al, but why are you dumping on the community?
Perhaps I got it all wrong?
I was going to post to this, but echoing number 46 from Swiss Griff will suffice. Good grief.
Margorp, either you can't read or your comprehention skills are lacking.
What my post says is that it's horrible that parents would go to such lengths to ensure that they have a disabled child.
If I werre to have children, my most strong wish would be that that child would be whole and complete and have sight and hearing and full health at birth. Of course I don't want a blind child, because if I were to birth a child in love, I would want them to have every opportunity that life has to offer them in birth, including all faculties.
It's all very well to hope for a blind child, though I'd hate to ever admit that if I felt it to my child, because I think to hope that your child will miss out on sight or hearing is a horrible thought, However to go to such lengths as actually trying for a disabled child?
you actually knowingly selecting a child that will be missing one of the senses that it could actually growing up wishing it could experience.
You're not giving something to that child, you're taking it away. You're taking it from them by knowingly seeking to medically modify your pregnancy so you have that disabled child. That's sick.
If your child is offered surgery to restore his/her sight or hearing and you refuse it because you want him/her to continue living the life that you choose for them?
that's sick.
it's like parents living their dreams through their children, choosing their careers and subjects for them, forcing them to work hard because they never did so well, placing an emotional burdon on them when they are so young and really just want to do something different.
only this is much more sinister.
I wouldn't medically modify my child. That is sick indeed...but if I had a child who was blind I would at least be able to understand him or her completely. I would be able to pass on my knowledge and they would hopefully be well adjusted. I would not view this as taking anything away.
It is not a hinderance.
no, and that's not what I meant, if you just happen to have a blind child, that's totally different from actually going to lengths to have one that you know and want to be blind. do you see my point?
Thanks for responding so quickly. Yes, I see your point...perhaps I saw that part of your post and overreacted.
Skyla - visual culture does not exist. It's all in your head. There are visual aspects to cultures and subcultures, but that does not mean they exclude blind people. If it did, blind people wouldn't watch X Factor/American Idle or the soaps, go to concerts, go clothes shopping or to sports matches.
I'd say I haven't read anything so rediculous, but I didn't come to the Zone for the first time today. I've read worse... but only on here.
I have to say this is the first time I've heard the term "visual culture"
Visual culture absolutely does exist. The fact that blind people choose to participate in it does not alter the reality that it was built around the needs and desires of able-bodied people. Visual culture doesn't expressly exclude blind people, but it is absolutely built upon abelist discourse. Senior, I am similarly appalled by the stuff I've read in this thread; you're not alone. I am pleased, however, that there appear to be at least a few people who can identify with my perspective.
I don't view being blind as a "lack", being "lacking in faculties", or "not whole" or "incomplete". And saying that we just have to deal with the fact that people are judgmental is akin to telling a black person to just "deal with the fact that slavery exists" (when it did in North America) because "it's a white man's world and we just need to get used to it."
Sorry, I don't stagnate like that. It's very easy to judge someonew ho isn't "socially adjusted" when you don't take into consideration their sociocultural context and the discourses that influence both your judgement and the person being judged. Bottom line: my goal is not to act like I'm sighted. I just act like myself. So far, I've been successful. The stratification in the blind community is frankly disheartening. Anyway, I've said my piece; I won't be back in this thread.
If visual culture exists, how come in all my life I have never noticed it. I've been around hundreds, if not thousands of sighted people, and I have never encountered visual culture.
Yeah I don't understand that one myself.
I will say that...sorry double standard time...we are judged...no it's not like saying black people should deal with issues like slavery. The bottum line is that we are looked at sideways unless we prove the world wrong.
visual culture is not exist, again, its one of the stereotype we have towards the sighted world. like it or not, that is how the world gonna run, you can sit down on your little corner and wheep to the fact that "this world is full of visual culture", or, join the party and adapt to the change.
just like everything else, if you allow your blindness to over take you, that is where you will end up, 10 years, 30 years, even 50 years from now, you'll be the same, using all the back dated techonology, because, the fact, we're move to the visual world, with all the touch screens, and so on.
the world wont stop moving because, you, as the minority of group needing the majority group to kathered their needs around you. either to adapt to it, as most of us do here, or as i said, sit in the corner and cry our heart out as, they, the sighted, having "visual culture" and only capable to adapt to their own needs.
i agree on swis grif, if i know that my offspring will born being blind, or any kind of disability, i won't take the risk of having a baby. the reason as simply as i know how hard to be a person with disability and doing the things i do, therefore, i don't want my offspring to go thru what i've been, and going thru what i going thru in a day to day bases as a person with disability. yes, people might argue that it will be different in next 10 or 20 years time, we might live in a more assessable world, however, i think its unfair to give a life to someone, when you know how hard it will be for them, to live as a person with disability.
If I knew my child was going to be blind/deaf, I wouldn't terminate the pregnancy, but I also wouldn't go to any lengths to see that it turned out that way. Whether they have a disability or not, people are people, and I can't understand the reasoning behind terminating a pregnancy on that basis. Maybe I misunderstood your post, Season, and if I did, I appologize.
I think if I had a blind child, or at least one with my genetic defect I would terminate, mainly because I know just how painful my condition really is.
I couldn't answer my child when it's laying in a hospital bed asking me why it has to go through all these operations and all this pain.
I couldn't tell it that it was because I was selfish and wanted a child even though I knew what pain it would go through.
In short, I'd lie to it or not give the full truth, and that's not good.
as for visual culture, of course it exists.
television, movies and the internet are at least semi-visual, as are vediogames and all that, body language, pictures and so much more are primarily visual, and play an inormous part in our culture.
swiss griff,
here are some things to ponder. My husband and I are both blind. We have a blind daughter and a sighted son. When our daughter was born, we had no idea that she was going to have a problem. During her first year of life she had 11 operations. At the end of the last one, we had the choice to continue or to let her go with what she had. This was a child who, because of surgeries, had to have her hands restrained at all times. This made learning to crawl, walk, and feed herself extremely dificult. The doctors said "but if we do this, and this, and this, she'll be able to see a little better." We said "will she be able to run and play? Can she swim? how about riding a horse?" They said "no, of course not, but she'll be able to have a little more vision." After much prayer, discussion, and soul searching, we decided that it was far better for her to have a normal childhood. She could play, make friends, learn to ride a bike, roller blade, and do whatever she wanted.
You said that if a parent didn't do everything to help their child they were abusers. Frankly, i think making a little girl a sickly hothouse flower who couldn't experience everything is abusive. think about it.
that isn't actually what I said, and certainly not what I meant.
my main point was, that there are people out there in the world who want to, and make the effort to have, a disabled child.
there are people out there who actually want their child to remain disabled, and in your case I can understand, you didn't want that, but it was a choice of what was best. but there are people out there, especially in the deaf comunity who want to have deaf children, and when they have the oportunity to hear with an implant, they refuse it. that is what I think is child abuse.
Agree with Swiss Grif. I wouldn't deny a blind child the opportunity for life, but I wouldn't knowingly want to conceive a blind child either. Being a religious person, I think what kind of child I would have would be out of my hands anyway.
I think I'll keep myself out of this classification nonsense and carry on adapting to blindness. There are way more important things in life than figuring out who goes where and why, or who does what and why not.
As my wise mother used to tell me when I was a kid, if they aren't feeding you, aren't putting a roof over your head, aren't clothing you, who gives a fuck what they think or say.
In the end you're all doing this to make yourselves feel superior. Look what I do that they don't do. Look what I have that they don't have. Go on reinforcing your self-image, go on chasing the illusion.
People who compare people and "know" that they have this or that kind of friend and can give examples make themselves look like asses.
Yes I understand it's human behavior, but something about this whole discussion makes it all seem so pathetic in my eyes.
I know what it's like to be fully sighted, and what it's like to lose my sight. Not once in my whole struggle did I feel like I had become a member of a different class until now.
But it's bullshit and I reject it all.
exactly; couldn't have said it better myself!! thank you.
I have never heard of what some of you all are talking about: medically modifying a child to make it (him/her) blind? Some of you all watch too much cheap sci fi, as good as it goes with the Old English 800.
As to a visual culture, I highly doubt it. Certainly there are vast numbers of visual elements within whatever culture one is a member of and, vision being a profound sense, anyone who has it by nature needs to rely upon it. But that doesn't make them a visual culture or a dynasty, or, because I buy something for my daughter in the colors she wants, does it make a model out of me conforming to it; that's only consideration of another's tastes.
And some of you all need a reality check: Teasing on the workplace? What country are you dialing from?
Yes, when I was in Japan, construction workers would sometimes be seen by my friends wielding a shovel as though it were a cane when I walked by. But frankly I saw that as sorta juvenile, kinda like watching monkeys at play when they went and did that. But seriously, you go teasing a woman on the workplace for being catty, or a black person for sounding like a rapper, or a blind person for one reason or another you'd see a person who'd get booted for disruption or bad morale or something they write up in those handbooks none of us ever read. *seriously* maybe in the school locker room, but not at the office! Frankly if I worked there and you all were gonna get nailed for teasing someone - and actually claim it was their fault to HR - I would get a betting ring going, kinda like a football pool, though I don't know anyone who would bet on your defense winning. *You* would be the ones fun to watch, not the alleged nail which sticks out, needing to be hammered in - be they black blind or whatever.
I don't think the Frankensteins here are the ignorant fellows with a few missing social graces, but perhaps the deliberate ones picking at their weakness, acting like wild animals. I guess, if that's who / what you are ...
i guess what Swis griff trying to said here is if she can prevent of having blind child by any means she'll do that. i quite agree with her. i won't deny the fact that if i'm pragnan, and know that my child will have some sort of disability (during pragnancy) i won't terminate the pregnancy. however, if before i pragnan, if my partner is blind or having some other disability deal to genetic reason, i won't take the risk to pragnan at the first place.
if i can't give the best life for my offspring, i rather dont give it all. it is unfair for the child to born in a family where health can become a problem, when we know very best that, it can be prevented in any circumstances. some of my rp friends who both parents have rp, are still blaimful towards the parents for the cause. one of my rp friend said this to me, "my parents know very well that their children have high chances to be blind, why they bother to born me". and these words, i don't wish to hear from my offspring, to their friends, or to anyone.
robozork, you might want to look at a few other board topics where certain zoners have stated that they want blind children over sighted ones.
I think you had better do some research also. it has happened much more in the deaf community, where parents will refuse their children implants in order to keep them in the deaf community, but it's also happened in the blind community also.
for me it's enough to know that people out there who have severe illnesses that are likely to be past on to their children knowingly have the children anyway.
if it were me, and i guess it partly is, because I refuse to have a child because I can pass mine on, I would never be able to be honest about it if I happened to have one. I'd never be able to tell them that I knew it would happen because of the guilt I'd feel.
Medical modification is insane...if it does truely exist that is.
it's getting pretty close with embrio selection and so on, genetic modification and so on...
I've read science fiction novels where it does exist, but "Fiction" is the key word here. I'm really not sure if it really does exist. No, I don't believe this kind of thing would be right. I'm sure that no child would ask to have any kind of disability. That being said, I can't understand terminating a pregnancy because of a possibility that the child could be blind/deaf. There's nothing life threatening about this, and there's no reason why the child couldn't live a productive life. For those of you who were born blind, how would you like it if your parents didn't want you to be born because of this? It's extreme, I know, but that's sort of what you're doing when you terminate a pregnancy because of this.
Now, if the child was going to die within a year or two anyway, and the doctor was able to tell me this with almost absolute certainty, then I might consider terminating that pregnancy, but a blind/deaf child wouldn't be dumed to a problem remotely close to death.
Ah I can anser your question. I still dream about it, wish for it, can see the inside of the vaccuum hose ... oh yeah I'm blind guess I couldn't do that ...
I personally was given up to the state, kicked around a bit then shipped out to a family. For better or worse, I think at least if you have wits you're gonna be fine. Would I have wished for my child to be blind? Naa ... I mean we all try and put the best foot forward ... but I wouldn't terminate over that either - course I'm a man so that doesn't really count.
As to the embryo modification that is in fact fiction, though there was an urban myth somewhere about a company that promised designer babies. There are some very serious constraints one would have to leap over in order to make this happen.
Accusing blind people of something that basically doesn't exist, adds lots of credibility to the stories placed elsewhere on these boards, and as I said there, there's company for ya.
I'm sure some *wish for * things in future offspring, though wishing for blindness or even pining for the lack of it is technically not problematic unless it is carried out somehow. But claims of modification, such as they aren't possible, are little more than the average tales told against minority groups. Only in the case of this group, such tales allegedly come from within. This oughta be interesting fodder for a cultural anthropologist.
I had a conversation with someone...they asked me, "if your child was blind, would you be sad?" Well, I thought about it and said, "well, it would be easy to deal with a blind child because I can teach him or her what I've learned."
It's not a bad thing to think about and I would even welcome it.
I would too. I wouldn't wish for it, but I wouldn't mind either.
I know what you mean...I wouldn't sit there and go, "if only..."
I agree with Raskolnikov and Fighter of Love and Light.
Raskol has articulated my points better than I have. It seems that some blind people are obsessed with being blind. It's strange. I don't feel I can relate to it. I don't understand it. As for their perceptions of sighted people, yeah there are some sighted people who have a negative attitude towards blind people, but there are also many sighted people who aren't like that. I have met many kind, helpful, thoughtful sighted people. I don't know them all personally, but I know they exist and I have experienced and I appreciate their goodness. While I am opposed to people treating others badly and judging negatively just because they're blind, I am equally against blind people doing the same to sighted people.
If you agree, please sign the proper petition.
I agree but don't sign tomfoolery ... er I mean petitions.
I just act it, that's all. But you're absolutely right; one group can't make complaints about another, and then mistreat them at the same time. I've never called a sighted person a 'sightie' or even think of them as 'sighted' except when they're my charge and try and read with the lights off, thereby potentially ruining their eyes ... yeah I've bawled out my daughter more than once for that.
But yes I think that some on here are the ones making the greater distinctions.
Because I don't think of them as 'sighted' or whatever, I don't come from a different universe, however interesting Hawking's Parallel Universe theory is in physics it doesn't apply here.
a lot of us are talking in the theoretical abstract here. I can tell you from personal experience what it is like to have a blind child. My husband and I are both blind. He had retinopathy of prematurity, too much oxygen, and I had a genetic annomaly. When I was a teen, I went to get genetic counseling. It was determined that I couldn't pass on the trait. They were wrong.
My daughter was born bvia c section. She was breech and wouldn't turn. Anyway, the neonatologist said "because of her eyes, we are pretty sure that your little girl is blind. She is a gorgeous healthy baby and has brown hair like yours. At least the part I can see that isn't grey."
My first reaction was "you snooty bitch. we don't talk about my gray hair in the delivery room."
Honestly, I was sad, but not devastated. there are a lot worse things than blindness. Our son had severe asthma and a chest annomaly that required a six hour surgery and a week stay in the hospital. That was rough.
During the time my daughter had her 11 surgeries, I spent a lot of time at georgetown hospital. There were parents there with kid who had cancer, multiple disabilities, heart defects, and you name it. Those women were so strong and brave. Then,they'd look at me and say "you must have it rough to have a blind child." I'm like naw. that's you.
My daughter is a feisty, strong, independent, funny, and smart woman. She's one of my best friends.
And that's exactly why I would never terminate a pregnancy if I found out that my future child would probably be blind.
Yes. I, too, don't believe that calling out sighted people for being, well, sighted, is any better than sighted people doing the same to us.
It's funny how we treat the "sighted world" the same way that we claim they treat us.
No kidding. I don't know about you, but I haven't heard/read sighted people going around calling themselves sighties and us blindies.
That would be kind of wierd.
Exactly, so if someone sighted doesn't want to be my friend just because the last blind person they met gave them a bad impression, well, that's their loss, not mine, but it isn't fair to judge all of them as a group because of this.
I know someone who told me the last blind person she met was real nasty to her. All I could think to say was "that's a shame."
It is, but that doesn't make you responsible for it.
Agreed with the last post, and also the fact some blind people seem to discriminate against all sighted people to really disturbing proportions. I don't know if that's true in real life, but at least on the net.
Well, for most of us, that's discrimination against our lovers, our kids, our friends, well pretty much our circle, as it were.
As I said, I find that rather dark and disturbing, and here's to hoping it's just someone engaged in a flame war on the Internet and that sighted people aren't exposed to that in real life. Basically, not to be unkind, but they're not prepared for it, and we are.
but it's just like the way some black people who have white friends will sometimes jokingly call each other 'nigger and white boy' I have seen this happen and it's not being used in a negative sence. Homosexuals used to take offense to being called gays and now they use it in relation to themselves. Black people used to take offense at being called black, but now it's what they prefer.
I don't treat sighted people badly because they are sighted. I'll treat people badly if they are stupid, but that's got nothing to do with sight...
If people ask me stupid questions, or make stupid and sometimes upsetting statements like 'oh, if I was blind I'd kill myself' then they get the reaction that's coming to them, not because they are sighted, but because they're stupid or inconsiderate.
I call sighted people sighties sometimes, but only ever in fun, and only when i'm teasing one of my sighted friends. Often a girlfriend of mine might say something about how good looking a guy is and I might say something like 'oh you sighties are soooooooo shallow'. or if one of my friends needs more light I'll tease them. 'oh you sighties wasting the worlds resources with your constant need for light'.
bbut she knows I'm only doing it in fun. there's no malace intended.
Well, it really depends on the context, but so often I hear, "All sighties do this", and, "All sighties are like this".
Do sighted people say the same thing about us when talking to other sighted people? Well, I've never heard of this happening...
I don't here that so much among my blind friends, but we do refer to sighted people as sighties, like we refer to negros as blacks, and homosexuals as gays...
Again, it's all about the context.
SwissGriff,
What you describe sounds perfectly normal and natural. I've nade similar jokes when the power's out, and had a friend say 'Get your blind ass over here ...' or 'Try opening your damned eyes' but that's all in fun.
What I find dark and disturbing is more the blanket statements some on here make about all sighted people this or that, or that sight by its nature causes people to be a certain way. Those are the types of things I find disturbing. If blindness doesn't cause us to be one way or another, and I certainly believe that, then neither does sight.
I agree with your analysis of the stupid, however. Mentally impaired is one thing, stupid is quite something else, and something I lack the patience to deal with most times.
I do not treat sighteds that way but I do combat ignorance:
I remember I was with some sighted person and a bus happened to be parked nearby with the engine off. Well, the sighted guy said, "Ah, what's this bus just sitting here fore?" And I said "Hmmm, didn't know there was a bus here." Now, naturally I meant that I didn't hear any bus pull up. Well, my sighted...companion said, without missing a beat, said, "Well that's a given." And so I said, also without missing a beat, "fuck you."
Yes. That I agree with.
Blind or sighted shouldn't matter, but ignorance and stupidity? Seriously, use a little common sense!
It's possible that maybe your sighted companion forgot you were blind. I've had that happen before on quite a few occasions, but, "That's a given." probably shouldn't been the response.
No he knew because he noticed my note taker. Anyway, I hate that sort of (pardon the term) blind ignorance.
True. It really doesn't take much to notice that sort of thing. Even the most independent of blind people still can't hide the fact that they're blind, at least not in public.
I don't always "look blind" even with my cane and all but...still this guy made a dumb ass comment and should be thrashed about.
to post 97, you're absolutely right. Despite what some on here would have you believe, most people basically don't care, provided they get their paychecks every two weeks, a night at the movie theater here and again and all the rest of society's general expectations. I will say this, as one who was punished for appearing blind as a kid, worrying about it is really expensive. Trying to hide it is frivolous; you can't possibly account for all the small detailia that vision captures.
But more than that, as long as you pay people, turn in your work, are generally a decent civilized person, most people won't care, notwithstanding any stories about big bad blind people that keep some entertained.
There's really nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't use it for the self-pity game, which, admittedly, most people don't.
I've never seen that self-pitty but I'm sure it's out there.
I'm not targetting blind people when I say that, because, actually, most of the people I've seen who try the self-pity game aren't blind at all. Lol.
True I see lots of sighteds who do that.